kidchameleonfandomcom-20200213-history
User talk:Mudesi
Hi Mudesi It's fine to just create new articles and write the walkthroughs. I prefer to come and add data and images after someone has sketched out the article, rather than create it myself from scratch. See you around! A. Itsasoguren 14:14, 10 September 2008 (UTC) Compression I'm glad K-E helped you find that hidden area and hope you get additional use out of it =) As far as compression is concerned, it's very different compressing something as opposed to decompressing it. When you decompress something, all you're doing is following a list of already written out instructions of what to do to complete the job. When you compress, you gotta figure out how to manipulate information to make it more compact, and that involves much more arithmetic and planning as to how to pull it off, because unlike decompressing something, there's nothing there to really tell you HOW to do the job when you compress something. It's like working for yourself as opposed to working for someone else and having them tell you what to do. As odd as it sounds, they're not 100% related because they're two different jobs. So basically, to compress the data, you'd have to write a bunch of extra code to make it do that. Figuring out how to compress something is not something I'm very good at, and that's the primary reason the editor was never finished. If you or someone else are able to write that part of the program, I'd be thrilled to see it, because then not only could you modify levels, but obviously you'd be able to PLAY them too. All My Notes http://www.4shared.com/file/64074068/619cb12/Kid_Chameleon_hacking.html BEWARE: My note-taking skills are horrible, so you may see a bit of sloppiness in there. Also, the part about savestates at the end isn't the most reliable portion of those notes, just in case you happen to become curious about that part. Most everything you need is in there. The compression for the blocks is documented. However, the tile layout / art compression is not documented. If you want, I can try to explain that to you, although I haven't played with it in a while so my memory may be a bit fuzzy. EDIT: Correction, the compression format used on tile layout and art IS explained in that file. I guess you're in good shape then! Saxman727 03:17, 23 September 2008 (UTC) Thanks! Your note taking skills arn't THAT bad =) Mudesi 19:42, 23 September 2008 (UTC) K-E Just curious what all you found with the code you were looking at. Were you able to do anything with it? Saxman727 18:07, 2 October 2008 (UTC) Interesting Thing with Maps I figured with you doing some research and such, you might find this interesting. For a long time I thought K-E was reading some of the maps incorrectly. I recently added a feature to KidTool to force it to only dump certain types of blocks. This way, I could see a map with only the prize blocks, rock blocks, etc. And as you know, to conserve space, they made the block layout format so you could layer blocks on top of each other. So this new feature allows me to see what doesn't show up in the game or the final map in K-E. Looking at various levels, I noticed there were "patterns" of helmets in maps. Elsewhere 24 and 25 have such patterns. These helmets don't show up because these specific prize blocks are overwritten by cannon blocks. After much research, I realized that the way the map is saved in the ROM, whatever block is on top, it's properties overwrites those of the blocks under it. So in the case of Under Skull Mountain III, the reason there are Red Stealth helmets is because there's SUPPOSED to be cannon blocks where those helmets exist. And my update to KidTool proves this, because it clearly shows a pattern of Red Stealth helmets where cannon blocks show up in KidEdit. So the data that makes those prize blocks Red Stealth helmets are really just dummies or placeholders -- those blocks got their data directly from the cannon blocks. So my conclusion from this is that for some reason, the USM3 map doesn't load correctly in the game, but shows up the way it was meant to in K-E. Here's the pattern of blocks saved in the map: prize blocks: P P P P P - - - P P P P P P P P P P P P P - - ice blocks: - I I I - I I I - I I I - I I I - I I I - I - cannon blocks: - - C - - - C - - - C - - - C - - - C - - - C P I C I P I C I P I C I P I C I P I C I P I C <<<< The true pattern as shown in K-E P I I P P I I I P P P I P P P I P P P I P I C <<<< Incorrect pattern shown in the game I've tried to figure out what causes this to happen, but I have absolutely no idea. I don't know if it's because in some instances there are 3 blocks in the same location or what. But it's definitely a bug in the game. Saxman727 01:52, 20 October 2008 (UTC) Bug Absolutely it's a bug! I can prove it because other maps have P blocks that share the attributes of the blocks stacked on top of them. It's consistent in every case. In Elsewhere 24, there's cannon blocks to the left of the screen that point to the right. Don't ask me why, but there are prize blocks under those cannon blocks. All three prize blocks have the Skycutter helmet. The P block value for that helmet is 2. The value for the right-shooting cannon block is 2. In Elsewhere 25, there's cannon blocks pointing down. There's a bunch of prize blocks under those, all which have the Red Stealth helmet. A prize block containing that helmet has a value of 4. The down-shooting cannon block has a value of 4. In Alien Twilight, there are several down/right-shooting cannon blocks. Under those are prize blocks containing Juggernaut helmets. The Juggernaut helmet prize block has a value of 6. The cannon blocks also have a value of 6 (down is 4, right is 2, add them together and you have 6). And so now we look at the layout of USM3 in my editor and see there are several down-shooting cannon blocks. It's no coincidence that the prize blocks in Kid Chameleon that contain the Red Stealth helmet happen to be the ones under the cannon blocks. So my guess is the game has trouble with the stacking order when you use more than 2 blocks in a single given space. As for the moving platforms, I'll see about locating them. Even though I canceled K-E, I plan to release an updated version of it. So it would be in my interest to locate them. Looking forward to seeing your own KC editor though! Oh, and have to read what I've written about the map groups and deleted maps in coorelation to the block diagrams KC game designers (I'm assuming) used? I thought it was pretty interesting. Saxman727 04:17, 23 October 2008 (UTC) Level Editing Stuff Good job on the enemy layout stuff! It sounds like to have figured out a good bit. I also have something to share with you. Moving platforms: XXXX YYYY LL RR TT BB SS HV PPPP 002BB6 - Beginning of platform layout 002384 - 32-bit address to platform layout data 002BF6 - Platform layout for USM3 002C6E - First platform encountered in USM3 0043A6 - 16-bit pointers to platform layout data for each map (from 002BB6) INTERESTING NOTE -- Map 1A (a non-existant map) uses 0394 for it's pointer. What makes this interesting is this platform layout is not used by any other map, but is perfectly valid data. This is an apparent leftover from what used to be map 1A. Try assigning this pointer to Whispering Woods (map 4C) to view the unused platform layout. XXXX - X pos in blocks YYYY - Y pos in blocks LL - Buffer absolute left edge (LL*2) RR - Buffer absolute right edge (RR*2) TT - Buffer absolute top edge (TT*2) BB - Buffer absolute bottom edge (BB*2) SS - 02 for h-only plat, 04 for v-only plat, 06 for h+v steel HV - Horizontal and vertical size in blocks PPPP - Platform movement data (relative pointer from 003602) To terminate a platform layout list, make XXXX equal to FFFF. Move platform presets: 003602 -- Beginning of platform presets 002840 -- 32-bit address to platform presets PLATFORM 06E8 - starts at 003CE6 FORMAT: CCCC XXXX xxxx YYYY yyyy CCCC - count in frames XXXX - x movement intervals (pixels) xxxx - x movement intervals (fine increments) YYYY - y movement intervals (pixels) yyyy - y movement intervals (fine increments) When count is FFFF, a 32-bit address follows. This address typically points back to the beginning of the list. Here's a picture showing "The Whispering Woods 1" with the unused map 1A platform layout. http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/4008/kcunusedvb2.png Saxman727 10:33, 25 October 2008 (UTC) Re: Yes I actually had figured that bit out, but I didn't realize it wasn't in the notes that I pasted on here. You're dead on though, except one little thing. The PPPP value can actually have a fourth possibility -- making if 0x000C will create a chain of platforms as seen in levels such as The Black Pit. If there's a way to control how many platforms there are in the chain, I have no idea. It would seem likely, but I haven't bothered to look into it very much. Maybe you can find out something on that. Let me know if you do! Oh and I've been updating KidTool. I've reworked how a couple little things work internally. And of course I added the -block command option earlier as I had noted, but I have a -decompress option in there working now that allows you to type in a ROM address and have it decompress the data. This is useful for dumping things not already supported by the program. The idea behind it is to allow me to extract enemy art and other things like that. You may or may not find it useful. I suppose it depends on how well it'll work for that specific task. I have found several other areas in the ROM that are compressed, all being art: 024985 - Title "KID" 024CD0 - Computer behind grid walls 026036 - Title menu 0261D7 - Kids hanging around Wild Side 02A479 - Title sparkles Basically, the area somewhere between 020000 and 400000 I am guessing is art rich. So my guess is somewhere in that area of the ROM is where the enemies are hanging out. I also wouldn't mind finding the player sprites which I can only guess are in there too. Saxman727 04:50, 27 October 2008 (UTC) Art I wouldn't really call it finding a needle in a haystack. There's clues to these things in the ROM. I tend to look for areas that look like they contain a pattern of bytes. Especially 32-bit words that look like they could definitely be addresses. That's how I have found a majority of what I have documented. Eventually changing one of those things will trigger a change in the game's behavior. There's plenty more artwork in Kid Chameleon, so it's gotta take up a fair amount of space. I have actually found the code that handles the enemy layout, so that may lead us somewhere. Also, as far as I know, things compressed in KC end with 0000. Searching for that helped me find a couple pieces of art. But I'll find those enemy sprites, no doubt in my mind. It'll just take a bit more research. Saxman727 16:40, 27 October 2008 (UTC) Theme 0xA Tile I see what you're saying. I wouldn't worry too much about it though because that tile isn't used anywhere anyhow. It may very well be dummy data that was never intended to be used in the level and is actually data for something else entirely. It could be a result of sloppy programming on their part (as seem with the decompression of maps -- many maps have some junk tiles in the lower-right corner covered up by blocks). After all, theme 0xA is the very last theme, and it's an issue on the very last tile. So that would suggest to me that it is junk data. Saxman727 03:50, 1 November 2008 (UTC) Making Headway on Enemy Art I found all the enemy art, and I'm discovering some of the mappings data for the enemies. Not sure how all of it fits together just yet. I'm disappointed I can't find the player art though. I know it's in there, but I can't seem to locate it. Did you know that for the boss art, there are arrows that load along with the boomerangs / green plasma shots? My guess is one of the bosses (likely the Shiskaboss) used to attack you with arrows instead of the green plasma shots. Saxman727 05:55, 1 November 2008 (UTC) Pallete Changes Hi! Mudesi :D I have an idea for my project (see Skarloey100 Projects), i need the address of the pallete of Stairway to Oblivion and Alien Twilight. My idea is change the pallete of Under Skull Mountain 1 to the pallete of Stairway to Oblivion. I know USM1's address of the pallete but i don't know the address of the pallete of Stairway to oblivion, can you help me? Skarloey100 (talk) 21:13, July 19, 2013 (UTC)